Post by mrriggs on Dec 23, 2007 4:11:14 GMT -5
This project was inspired by the Banshee Magneto Swap thread xs650temp.proboards29.com/index.cgi?board=Charging&action=display&thread=1168205252&page=1 started almost a year ago. That thread is quite long now so I thought I'd make new thread to show my project and condense the information a bit.
The main parts needed for this swap are; a Banshee rotor, a Banshee stator bracket, a three phase stator 103mm X 42mm X 20mm, and a regulator/rectifier for a three phase permanent magnet alternator.
I paid $17.53 for the rotor, $17.95 for the bracket, $21.61 for the stator, and $15.24 for the regulator/rectifier. Total cost $72.33.
The Banshee was made for two decades and the rotors and stator brackets are the same for all years. Banshee owners often upgrade both these parts so stock items can be found easily.
According to the Electrosport web site www.electrosport.com all the following bikes have the proper size stator for this swap.
Honda CBR600 F1 86-90
Honda VF500 84-85
Kawasaki VN800 Vulcan 00-05
Kawasaki VN800 Classic 01-06
Kawasaki VN800 Drifter 01-05
Kawasaki ZL600 86-87
Kawasaki ZX600, ZX-6 Ninja, ZZR600 85-04 [!!NOT ZX6-R, ZX6-RR 98+!!]
Suzuki VS800 92-07
Suzuki VX800 90-93
Suzuki VZ800 97-04
Suzuki LT250 91-96
Suzuki LT4WD 91-96
Suzuki LT-F4WD 91-98
Yamaha XV250 Route66 88-90
Yamaha XT600 90-95
I used a VF500 stator since that was the first one on the list that I found on ebay. I can't guarantee that all the stators listed will work because I haven't tried all of them.
You can get the regulator/rectifier from pretty much any bike that has a three phase permanent magnet alternator. Generally they will have five wires. Three of the wires will be the same color usually white or yellow, these are the input from the stator. The output wires are simply positive and negative just like a battery. The positive wire is usually red, and the negative may be black, green, or black and white stripe. Sometimes there will be seven wires. The three input, two positive and two negative. I'm guessing they double them up so it can handle more current without using bigger (stiffer) wires. If there are any wires other than these three in and two out then the regulator/rectifier probably won't work in this application.
This is my daily beater, the test subject.
The first step is to remove the foot peg, shift lever and side cover.
Next, remove the stock stator. This part is kind of a pain since the wire is run behind the rubbing block for the chain. You need to remove the rubbing block and snake the wires out.
The rotor comes off next. A simple task if you have the proper puller. Don't even try it without the puller. You can kind of see in the next picture that my seal was sticking out a bit. It had to be tapped in so the Banshee bracket could sit flush against the case. Also scrape away any gasket gunk hanging out that will prevent the bracket from sitting flat.
The Banshee bracket only needed slight modification to fit. I had to grind a small relief in the side to accommodate the screw that holds the wires on the stator (blue circles). I also cut off the lower mounting stud for the ignition trigger. You can cut off the entire thing but the stud was the only thing that prevented it from fitting. (red circle)
Test fitting the bracket before installation. I went over all the mating surfaces with a wire wheel the clean it and rough up the surface. Then washed it off with some carb cleaner to remove any oil residue.
Next comes the JB Weld. I smeared big globs on the mating surfaces, installed the bracket [held temporarily with a socket and nut], then smeared more on all the seams. Make sure you get it right the first time cause after it sits overnight it's going to be a pain to get off. This is a semi-permanent installation, a good cheap way to go if you have no plans to split the case. It's possible to get the JB Weld off but it's not easy. If you can weld aluminum, a better solution would be to tack weld it. It would be a lot easier to grind off three little spots than to remove the JB Weld.
The VF500 stator had two grommets pretty close to the hole in the case. Neither were wide enough to fill the gap.
I found a large rubber grommet that fit the gap perfectly. Just cut it in half, wrapped it around the existing grommet, then shoved it in the hole and cut off the excess. Leaving just a bit sticking out of the hole so it's smashed in real tight when the side cover is installed. I also [carefully] cut the unused grommet off the wires.
The stator bolts right to the bracket. I used a little blue Locktite on the screws.
Then comes the rotor. A key is not needed since the rotor is not being used to fire the ignition. Slide the rotor onto the crank and bolt it down with the stock nut and lock washer. I also added a flat washer under the lock washer. A little red Locktite on the threads is a good idea too.
All that's left is to snake the new wires back in the same way the old ones came out. Then the side cover, lever, and foot peg can go back on.
I lucked out and the stator had the same plug as the regulator/rectifier so it plugged right it. If they don't match you will need to replace one or both of the plugs with compatible parts. Or use bullet connectors [female ends on the stator leads]. Or you could hard wire it. However you do it, the three wires from the stator need to be hooked to the three input wires on the regulator/rectifier. The input wires should be the only three that are all the same color. It doesn't matter which is hooked where, the voltage is the same on all three.
Hook the ground wire to a good ground on the frame or run it directly to the negative battery post. If you're still using the stock wiring then you can hook the positive wire to the red wire off of the original rectifier. Or Hook the positive wire to the positive battery post with a fuse.
Since this is a permanent magnet alternator you can run the bike with no battery. However, you will need a big capacitor in place of the battery [at least 2,000uf]. Without a battery or capacitor the voltage will fluctuate too quickly for the regulator to keep up with. There are many "battery eliminator" kits available but all they are is a capacitor. I scavenged some capacitors from an old computer power supply. The capacitance is usually measured in mico farads (uf). For this application the values isn't critical but bigger is generally better. The bigger it is the more stable your voltage will be. The voltage rating on capacitors is the maximum voltage they can handle. They can run at any voltage under the rated voltage. Try to find 20+ volt capacitors. 16 volt caps can be used in a pinch. There are two pins on a cap, positive and negative. Usually the negative is marked with a band or arrow. Hook this lead to ground. Hook the other lead to the regulator output, after the fuse.
I've been running this alternator for less than a week but so far it has outperformed the stock unit. The headlight is brighter at idle and the turn signals work. With the stock alternator I had to open the throttle a tiny bit to get the turn signals to work. And the biggest advantage... the bike fired right up even when I forgot to plug in the battery! Finally, my kick start bike doesn't need a battery.
UPDATE 8/27/2010:
This thread has become quite long. This is an update for those new people who don't want to read through the whole thing. I now make an adapter bracket that makes this a simple bolt-on conversion.
There is also more information in the instruction sheet about selecting the right parts, making timing marks, and wiring it up to a stock system.
www.gofastforless.com/junk/Per-Mag-Alt-Instructions.pdf
While this swap is most popular with the custom bike crowd, since you can run without a battery, it is equally beneficial for ANY XS650 on the road. You get rock solid reliability. No more brushes that wear down, slip rings that need to be cleaned, or rotor windings to short out. The only parts that could go out are the stator and regulator/rectifier and those can easily be found used for under $25 each, or new from any Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, or aftermarket dealers. The net cost of this conversion is also very low. I sold my stock rotor and stator for $50 each so this alternator hasn't only paid for itself, it made money!
The main parts needed for this swap are; a Banshee rotor, a Banshee stator bracket, a three phase stator 103mm X 42mm X 20mm, and a regulator/rectifier for a three phase permanent magnet alternator.
I paid $17.53 for the rotor, $17.95 for the bracket, $21.61 for the stator, and $15.24 for the regulator/rectifier. Total cost $72.33.
The Banshee was made for two decades and the rotors and stator brackets are the same for all years. Banshee owners often upgrade both these parts so stock items can be found easily.
According to the Electrosport web site www.electrosport.com all the following bikes have the proper size stator for this swap.
Honda CBR600 F1 86-90
Honda VF500 84-85
Kawasaki VN800 Vulcan 00-05
Kawasaki VN800 Classic 01-06
Kawasaki VN800 Drifter 01-05
Kawasaki ZL600 86-87
Kawasaki ZX600, ZX-6 Ninja, ZZR600 85-04 [!!NOT ZX6-R, ZX6-RR 98+!!]
Suzuki VS800 92-07
Suzuki VX800 90-93
Suzuki VZ800 97-04
Suzuki LT250 91-96
Suzuki LT4WD 91-96
Suzuki LT-F4WD 91-98
Yamaha XV250 Route66 88-90
Yamaha XT600 90-95
I used a VF500 stator since that was the first one on the list that I found on ebay. I can't guarantee that all the stators listed will work because I haven't tried all of them.
You can get the regulator/rectifier from pretty much any bike that has a three phase permanent magnet alternator. Generally they will have five wires. Three of the wires will be the same color usually white or yellow, these are the input from the stator. The output wires are simply positive and negative just like a battery. The positive wire is usually red, and the negative may be black, green, or black and white stripe. Sometimes there will be seven wires. The three input, two positive and two negative. I'm guessing they double them up so it can handle more current without using bigger (stiffer) wires. If there are any wires other than these three in and two out then the regulator/rectifier probably won't work in this application.
This is my daily beater, the test subject.
The first step is to remove the foot peg, shift lever and side cover.
Next, remove the stock stator. This part is kind of a pain since the wire is run behind the rubbing block for the chain. You need to remove the rubbing block and snake the wires out.
The rotor comes off next. A simple task if you have the proper puller. Don't even try it without the puller. You can kind of see in the next picture that my seal was sticking out a bit. It had to be tapped in so the Banshee bracket could sit flush against the case. Also scrape away any gasket gunk hanging out that will prevent the bracket from sitting flat.
The Banshee bracket only needed slight modification to fit. I had to grind a small relief in the side to accommodate the screw that holds the wires on the stator (blue circles). I also cut off the lower mounting stud for the ignition trigger. You can cut off the entire thing but the stud was the only thing that prevented it from fitting. (red circle)
Test fitting the bracket before installation. I went over all the mating surfaces with a wire wheel the clean it and rough up the surface. Then washed it off with some carb cleaner to remove any oil residue.
Next comes the JB Weld. I smeared big globs on the mating surfaces, installed the bracket [held temporarily with a socket and nut], then smeared more on all the seams. Make sure you get it right the first time cause after it sits overnight it's going to be a pain to get off. This is a semi-permanent installation, a good cheap way to go if you have no plans to split the case. It's possible to get the JB Weld off but it's not easy. If you can weld aluminum, a better solution would be to tack weld it. It would be a lot easier to grind off three little spots than to remove the JB Weld.
The VF500 stator had two grommets pretty close to the hole in the case. Neither were wide enough to fill the gap.
I found a large rubber grommet that fit the gap perfectly. Just cut it in half, wrapped it around the existing grommet, then shoved it in the hole and cut off the excess. Leaving just a bit sticking out of the hole so it's smashed in real tight when the side cover is installed. I also [carefully] cut the unused grommet off the wires.
The stator bolts right to the bracket. I used a little blue Locktite on the screws.
Then comes the rotor. A key is not needed since the rotor is not being used to fire the ignition. Slide the rotor onto the crank and bolt it down with the stock nut and lock washer. I also added a flat washer under the lock washer. A little red Locktite on the threads is a good idea too.
All that's left is to snake the new wires back in the same way the old ones came out. Then the side cover, lever, and foot peg can go back on.
I lucked out and the stator had the same plug as the regulator/rectifier so it plugged right it. If they don't match you will need to replace one or both of the plugs with compatible parts. Or use bullet connectors [female ends on the stator leads]. Or you could hard wire it. However you do it, the three wires from the stator need to be hooked to the three input wires on the regulator/rectifier. The input wires should be the only three that are all the same color. It doesn't matter which is hooked where, the voltage is the same on all three.
Hook the ground wire to a good ground on the frame or run it directly to the negative battery post. If you're still using the stock wiring then you can hook the positive wire to the red wire off of the original rectifier. Or Hook the positive wire to the positive battery post with a fuse.
Since this is a permanent magnet alternator you can run the bike with no battery. However, you will need a big capacitor in place of the battery [at least 2,000uf]. Without a battery or capacitor the voltage will fluctuate too quickly for the regulator to keep up with. There are many "battery eliminator" kits available but all they are is a capacitor. I scavenged some capacitors from an old computer power supply. The capacitance is usually measured in mico farads (uf). For this application the values isn't critical but bigger is generally better. The bigger it is the more stable your voltage will be. The voltage rating on capacitors is the maximum voltage they can handle. They can run at any voltage under the rated voltage. Try to find 20+ volt capacitors. 16 volt caps can be used in a pinch. There are two pins on a cap, positive and negative. Usually the negative is marked with a band or arrow. Hook this lead to ground. Hook the other lead to the regulator output, after the fuse.
I've been running this alternator for less than a week but so far it has outperformed the stock unit. The headlight is brighter at idle and the turn signals work. With the stock alternator I had to open the throttle a tiny bit to get the turn signals to work. And the biggest advantage... the bike fired right up even when I forgot to plug in the battery! Finally, my kick start bike doesn't need a battery.
UPDATE 8/27/2010:
This thread has become quite long. This is an update for those new people who don't want to read through the whole thing. I now make an adapter bracket that makes this a simple bolt-on conversion.
There is also more information in the instruction sheet about selecting the right parts, making timing marks, and wiring it up to a stock system.
www.gofastforless.com/junk/Per-Mag-Alt-Instructions.pdf
While this swap is most popular with the custom bike crowd, since you can run without a battery, it is equally beneficial for ANY XS650 on the road. You get rock solid reliability. No more brushes that wear down, slip rings that need to be cleaned, or rotor windings to short out. The only parts that could go out are the stator and regulator/rectifier and those can easily be found used for under $25 each, or new from any Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, or aftermarket dealers. The net cost of this conversion is also very low. I sold my stock rotor and stator for $50 each so this alternator hasn't only paid for itself, it made money!
