my new system

[2manyrides]

update 5-21-15
it's been so long that all the pic's are gone from this page. But there's two pages and still some on the second page. Don't get discouraged and read on......

It's been a couple years since I was researching what I could do for aftermarket mufflers. Then I took a plunge and ordered some lately. I've been struggling to get them straight and solidly mounted. That's been accomplished, but only as a mock up on an extra machine. It will be a while before they go into action. It's not too late to ask for advice, or to have some one chime in with some drawbacks I might run into.

So I have stock 77D headers,
1 3/4 wassel up swept cocktail Shakers (18" long) with two adapter sleeves each muffler,
Stock 81 motor with 77 carbs and stock air box.

I have had to bend out the horn on the center stand 1" to clear the muffler.
I'll have to fabricate a center stand stop.
(I was thinking of welding an extra arm to the center stand, incorporating a rubber bumper, and having that meet the rear foot peg loop on the stock 77D frame).

I'm not too happy about using adapters, but 1 1/2 mufflers wont fit on the stock headers. This mounting I have devised is darn near as solid as an original set of pipes. The brake pedal clears by mere fractions of an inch. I think I can still use rear foot sets from a special, (no muffler bracketry), but the hardest bit about that will be getting a wrench on the nut as you can't come straight in to it because the tail of the muffler is in the way, and the peg's shoulder area may prevent a box end wrench.

[2manyrides]

And here's another shot of the mock up of my mufflers. the right side really wants to be a bit higher than the left, but I want them even!

2manyrides

[pamcopete]

2manyrides

Have a look at this link. The stock headers are double walled. You should not just clamp the aftermarket muffler to the outer pipe, you need to use an adapter to connect to the inner pipe.

xs650temp.proboards29.com/index.cgi?board=Troubleshooting&action=display&thread=10297&page=1#64376

[2manyrides]

OK Pete,
Point well taken. In fact, that post is what prompted me to chime in with my new exhaust system. However, I'm not so sure mine would be a candidate to leak gases through the three holes up at the heat radiator flange at the motor. And here's why I say that.
#1 In the thread you helped jordanepp with his leak, his headers are modified and look like they would leak.
#2 And on your 81H, wouldn't those have been special pipes you had to saw off anyway?
#3 These are stock pipes from a STD (apples VS oranges)
#4 Late last year I helped out a friend with a 79 special. We removed the SP exhaust completely, installed STD headers and new reverse cone mufflers. No leaks through the double wall system. (at the muffler adapters yes) (through the 3 holes no)
#5 on a XS650 STD that is unmodified it would be imposable to install an adapter as suggested with out cutting back 1 1/2" in order to get beyond A) the spot weld from inner to outer, and B) to get past the factory's inner pipe expansion.
To sum it up, I'd have to start the motor to see if they're air tight.
But if not, could the holes at the head be welded shut without any adverse effects?

It is wonderful to have this resource with which to bounce these ideas off the wall. Thank you for all your advice. I'm sure this will help others too. I've been pondering this change over for a year and still come up with questions. Throughout my XS's history it has always had a stock STD system on it. (3 different sets) It's getting hard to find a decent used replacement set, so I'm jumping to the aftermarket scenario for the first time.



2manyrides

[2manyrides]

OK Pete,
I pressurized the headers, they don't leak. You can cover up 2 holes and blow through the other for a quick check of the inner and outer. Or just cap off one end and pressurize at the other.
So this is what I'm going to end up with in the pictures.
I'll need to apply a sealant at the muffler joint due to the adapters, and a slight angle change where the muffler meets the header. The mufflers are shoved on about 1 1/2 inches.

I was able to install the rear foot pegs off an 81. The trumpet end of the muffler leaves clearance there. Not seen in the pics is the strap from foot peg bolt to muffler strap stud.

Really solid when you bang on it. It's rigid! I hope it doesn't vibrate to pieces.

We'll see if it needs jetting when it gets running. I think it will have a good tone.

These stock headers have quite few small bends where they pass under the motor. Causing a tight fit for the brake pedal.
In both directions of travel, up and down, it misses hitting the muffler by a 1/16th.
I'm using the stock clamp that would normally hold the muffler joint nut, but moved back 1 1/4" . Made a little strap to be able to bolt back into the original bolt hole for it.


2manyrides

[2manyrides]

I fired that sucker up last weekend.
Sounds like some kind of fire breathing monster!
Wayyyyy loud.
When I do my refurbishing of my daily rider, I'm putting all this junk on. I'll see how it goes with these noise makers on the street.
May have to rethink exhaust if I can't hack the sound/wake up the neighbor.

[tomterrific]

Stainless steel scrubing pads do wonders for exhaust sound and don't blow out as easy as fiber glass. Fiber glass sounds better but stainless wool lasts longer.

TG.

[2manyrides]

Right Tom, I've never used fiberglass packing.
I've always used steel wool to pack supertraps.
But ya got me thinking...stay tuned

2manyrides

[2manyrides]

Hey any suggestions?

I decided to pull out the baffles and see the inards. You have this perferated tube, but nothing else. Seems to me I might as well run straight pipes with no mufflers at all.
How is this muffler supposed to quiet anything from an engineering stand point?

I have used steel wool to pack 70's era supertraps. Stuff it in, pack it in tight around the tube, add discs.
That's all the experience I have with that. But I remembered seeing packing material at Cycle Gear so I went in there with a recent $5 off coupon. Got this fiberglaas material for FMF pipes. It's the right size for the tube. It'd have to be on pretty tight to slide back in to the Wassel Cocktail Shakers. I was thinking about using wire to hold it in place around the perferated tube.

thanks in advance
2manyrides

[roar]

I'm asuuming it's not a three chamber set up, but would still imagine it to be quieter than straights. With a straight pipe you're getting the sound wave pulses coming straight with no hindrance at all. The perforated pipe lets some of those sound waves bounce in and around the pipe that surrounds it. Thus they lose some of their energy and are quieter when the leave the pipe system. Like you said, you can further reduce this energy by stuffing something fibrous around the perforated tube to absorb and redirect the pulses even more.

[2manyrides]

quote author=roar board=talk thread=11660 post=74876 time=1239068427]I'm assuming it's not a three chamber set up, but would still imagine it to be quieter than straights.[/quote]

Thanks roar, I was kidding about straight pipes, these are loud though!

Any one with a tip about how to wrap them and squeeze em back in?



Cut to fit the tapered baffle,

try to shove it back in,

if I can get it back through the "narrows" of these trumpets, I figure it should quiet down.

Is it critical to like, tape up the seam to seal them better?

I was going to wire the ends and the middle with the hope it will stay in place.
What do people usually do?

2manyrides

[5twins]

Years back when we ran (somewhat) silenced expansion chambers on our 500 Kawasaki triples, we wrapped the perfed tube much like you're thinking about doing. To hold the 'glass on, we used telephone wire. If you peel the outer insulation off the phone wire used for running jacks and such, you'll find 4 to 6 really thin wires inside. Thinnest we could find but still strong enough to do the job. Don't bother stripping the insulation off the little wires, the engine heat will take care of that for you

[tomterrific]

2M,

I got ya covered here. I started running Dunstalls on my Norton back in 1972 and still have a replica set on my Triumph. The Dunstall has a flange on the body that makes getting the packed tube back into the body very difficult. I originally used thin wire like 5T suggests but I found masking tape works the best.

Wind the tape from the outlet to the inlet so the leading edge of the tape is covered. This way the edge is less likely to catch the flange. The tape will burn off and release the fiberglass. To facilitate releasing the glass and help the packed tube slide in you can smear oil on the tape right before you shove the tube into the body. The oil will release the tape glue.

You will be delighted how nice the exhaust sounds right after you wrap the tube. You will also be amazed how quickly the glass blows out when you break the Ton. {8^o

Tom Graham

Ps, I like your mufflers.

[2manyrides]

Thanks 5twins and tomterrific!

I have telephone wire like that. and of course tape.

The goal here then is to just have the sound deadening material inside the chamber not necessarily wrapped tight on the tube once it's in?
IE, the tape gives way and the material expands.
I can see it breaking up and blowing out in the back of my head now.

How long will a packing last? Over the years I've certainly read/heard disgusted people's stories about fiberglass/repacking/blowing out quickly.

Right now it sounds like some sort of fire breathing Norton drag bike. Quite a departure from the three different sets of stock XSD pipes I've used up over the years. Even the 2 into 1's I ran for a couple years were tolerable. They were fine accept for the vulnerable scrape/smash on right hand leaner's. Coupled with the inability to run a center stand.
BTW I developed an extreme stopper for the center stand so it wont smash into the muffler.


The bumpers are set to strike the rear foot peg loop you have on a standard.


thanks,
2manyrides

[5twins]

Well, hopefully you'll get a season out of it. We only got a few thousand miles out of those 2 strokes before the packing burned out - yes, burned. It would burn from the engine side back towards the outlet. I tried that fancy white wrap specifically made for exhausts but it really didn't last any better than just plain house insulation so that's what we used mostly ( it was basically free).

For stopping the tang against aftermarket mufflers, all I ever did was stick a piece of heater hose on it. While you've got the welder out though, you should brace that tang. They have a nasty habit of breaking off .....



Apparently Yamaha was aware of this as they braced the stands on the last couple years themselves .....



Another neat little mod is installing grease nipples on the stand pivots. The bike goes up on the stand noticeably easier with grease in those pivots .....



And don't forget the sidestand .....