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Post by luckyleprechaun on Dec 24, 2012 15:03:16 GMT -5
I just got my first bike, a '76, about a month ago, and have been tinkering with it to try to get it ready to ride in spring. I tried to kick-start it one day, and seemingly ran into a lot of electrical issues and couldn't get it started. I'm going to post all the information I can provide, sorry if it's too much or muddies the waters as to the non-start issue, because we could always be dealing with multiple issues. I'm definitely no wiring expert, so excuse me if what I write doesn't make complete sense or I have to ask for clarifications
1. As far as I could tell, kicking it over with a full battery, I had no spark(at least for the right hand cylinder)
2. I was told that the electric starter didn't work, which I didn't really care about, and pressing the button, sure enough, nothing happened. However, if I jump direct power to the main starter wire on the starter relay the starter motor makes noise, but doesn't engage(doesn't turn the engine over). I also tested the relay itself, and I believe that it is in working order. Also, if I use a voltmeter and put one prong on the solder that holds the blue/white wire on the back of the starter button and the other prong on the solder that holds the blue/white wire to the relay, it says I have continuity even with the button not pressed.
3. I have headlight, taillight, gauge lights, high beam, and high beam indicator, but no brake light, turn signals, neutral indicator, stop lamp indicator, or horn. The horn does work with direct power, but not by pressing the button.
4. I took apart, cleaned, and tested the kill switch, and it seems to be working.
That's all I can think of for now, I tested continuity and power on a bunch of things today, but it's been kind of mind-numbing and I can't really think right now. Like I mentioned before, this is my first bike and I am by no means an electrician, so I don't really know how things are connected together or what the readings are supposed to be, so I could be missing something blatantly obvious. Any help would be really appreciated right now, i'm about ready to start tearing my hair out.
**EDIT** I can't believe I didn't mention this earlier, but being so brain-dead yesterday it completely slipped my mind. Between the coils and the neck there is a 6-plug female connector not hooked up to anything. It has a white end that looks like it would plug into another white plastic end. I have looked all over and not seen anything that it obviously mates to. It is set up like so:
O - White O - Red
O - Yellow O - Green
O - Black O - Blue
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Post by 10ecjed on Dec 24, 2012 23:21:37 GMT -5
Welcome newbie. Congradualtions on getting a bike. I suggest you get a Clymer and or Yamaha service manual. There is a wealth of information here. You may have to dig for some it. We will give advice when you need it though.
Good luck
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Post by luckyleprechaun on Dec 25, 2012 10:16:35 GMT -5
I do want to get a manual, as I know they can be extremely helpful, I was hoping the local library would have one, but no such luck. I will be seriously looking at get one after all the holiday chaos is over.
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Post by jetmechmarty on Dec 25, 2012 19:17:26 GMT -5
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Post by preston on Dec 25, 2012 19:52:29 GMT -5
Hey lucky650owner:
Welcome aboard and Merry Christmas...
My suggestion, is not to think about the electric stater. (forget that for now)
Hone in on getting the bike running,,,
Coils good >? have you switched plugs and or plug wires, to see if your spark on one side, moves over to the other side.?
New spark plugs ?
Points perfectly set to spec, timing best you can, until bike is running , or do you Have Pamco-set up?
If points, are your condensers in good shape.
Last thing many of us have found,,, with 650, which we seem to love for some reason,,,when chasing down a electrical problem, it is really the carburetors which are at fault.. and then, when we are chasing down what we are 99% sure, is fuel issue, or carburetor problem, it is really the 1% , issue, "electrical".. be aware of this common element.
Preston
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Post by luckyleprechaun on Dec 25, 2012 21:00:37 GMT -5
So I got a chance to talk to my Uncle today, who I got the bike from:
1. He says I had the key switch in the wrong position to start it, I had it turned all the way to the right instead of the middle setting.
2. The white, six plug connector is for a fairing
3. He confirmed that the starter motor works, but doesn't engage, and still doesn't work at the press of the button. Would be nice to get the electric start to work, so if anyone has thoughts about this that would be great.
jetmechmarty: I'll definatly take a look at that, there aren't very many times where too much information is a bad thing
Preston: I agree that the electric start is of much lesser concern than getting the bike running, the electric start is just a convenience, I thought it might be tied in with my no start issue however, and it would be convenient to have.
I don't know if the coils are good, the only thing I did was test them for continuity.
I have not switched anything because i'm pretty certain I have no spark. I know 100% that I have no spark on the right hand side, but i'm like 90% sure I don't have spark on the left hand side either.
Sparks plugs looked to be in good order as well as the wires
I don't know if the points or timing are set correctly as I don't know how to check those things yet. All I did was visually check the points, and it looks like they are clean and not stuck.
I also don't really know what condensors are or how to check them.
Since I was getting no spark i'm going to assume that it really is an electrical issue. I was getting no fuel in the cylinders either, but that obviously is the carbs. I was also putting fuel directly into the cylinders when I was trying to start it with no result.
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Post by xsleo on Jan 5, 2013 11:41:49 GMT -5
I agree, a repair manual should be your first tool to aquire. It will have the tune specs and procedures. It will also have a wiring diagram. Using the wiring diagram and a multi-meter you can trace the iring to find and fix problems. The first thing I would do would be to fully charge the battery. Use a motorcycle charger, a car type charger will hurt your battery. Remove the tank for easy acces to the electrical under the tank. Now fine your coils. They have a red/white wire to them. This is power to the coils. With the key and engine stop switches in the run positions, check battery voltage. Now check the voltage at the red/white wire at the coils. You should get very close to battery voltage, about .2 or .3 volts less at max. Any less and you need to trace back along the wiring to find where it gets lost. Most likely dirty key switch or engine stop switch, They both can be taken apart and cleaned. Once you are sure the coil is getting proper voltage you should get spark if the points are clean and gapped right. If the timing is ok it should fire up. If it has set awhile then the carbs probably need cleaning. www.amckayltd.com/carbguide.pdf will help get them right. Leo |
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Post by ShakerNorm on Jan 17, 2013 0:13:17 GMT -5
Welcome to the board, Lucky! Points can be a finicky thing to play with -but if your uncle says that they haven't been touched since it was running - I wouldn't touch them, yet. If they haven't moved since it was good - they won't move on their own! The condenser is just old terminology for a capacitor - When the points break open, there's a momentary voltage spike that will burn the points quite quickly. The Condenser absorbs this spike, then releases it to the coil to help make a better spark. Unless you have specialized electronic equipment, you can't really check the condenser. If you buy new points for it - the condenser is usually included with it, but Mike's sells them separately. The coils on these are notoriously weak, and will (like anything else) eventually fail with heat and time.... but unless you want to upgrade your ignition system (there are 3 or 4 electronic ignition systems out there for the XS), about all you can do is replace them if they have failed. I'm not a guru on coils, so I can't tell you what to check for with your type of coils, though. I found you a wiring diagram -  Leo is right - these things don't have a great electrical system to start with, and won't tolerate a weak battery at all. You'll find that even with a good battery you may still notice your headlight getting noticeably dimmer when you're idling at a red light..... and if it drains too much - it won't have enough juice to keep your alternator running and then you're hooped..... That's why they only have a 40 watt headlight! Personally - I've switched my bike to LED's to save power - although they do have their problems on an old bike like this, I've just put on a new alternator, and just got a HID headlight (35 watts puts out more light than a 100 watt halogen! More light and less power - Good deal!). The good thing is that all the switches are mechanical and can usually be cleaned and repaired with a little time, patience, contact cleaner and a little light abrasive (sometimes even an eraser is enough). The bad thing is that this bike vibrates - LOTS! and when it vibrates, it shakes all the connectors and wires, and sometimes a connector can vibrate loose. When the contacts in there are loose, they cause tiny sparks which corrode the contacts and disrupt the flow of all those vital electrons. So check all the wiring and plugs that you can. Make sure they are all clean and tight, and if you can, put some dielectric grease on them to keep them clean and reliable. Another thing to watch for is loose wires rubbing on things. Especially edges like your headlight bucket. There's a rat's nest of wiring in there, and if the grommets that protect the wires from the sheet metal edges are shot, then the wires have a good chance of getting cut by the metal. Not a good situation. The only place you should have sparks are in the cylinders.... Good Luck! |
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