Clutch Pushrod Question

[beekay]

Hey... Does anyone know if the clutch pushrods are all the same length through the years?
Same Q with the other part under clutch cover.


Thx - BK

[jetmechmarty]

The answer is yes and no. The early bikes use a one piece pushrod and the later bikes use a two piece pushrod. I believe you can interchange them. I hear of folks switching the later bikes to the single piece unit, but not the other way around. I wonder why Yamaha changed it?

This image is the '73 TX650. Item 19 & 20 is the pushrod.


This image is the '77 XS650D. Items 18, 19, & 20 make up the pushrod.

[jetmechmarty]

According to Mike's XS these parts are correct for 1972 through 1984 XS650's.

[beekay]

Somehow my '74 ended up with a 7 plate clutch from a later bike, and it seems like the clutch pushrod might be a bit short. Just because I need to move the adjustment screw way out before it contacts the end of the pushrod. I wonder what's up with that?

Those diagrams are helpful - Thanks
It makes me think that I could probably put together a custom length pushrod if I felt it was nessecary, without much difficulty.

[dcg75]

If you have the 2piece pushrod make sure you have the little ball installed.

[jetmechmarty]

Mar 10, 2013 12:09:28 GMT -5 dcg75 said:

If you have the 2piece pushrod make sure you have the little ball installed.

Yes. The two piece push rod requires two little balls. The single piece push rod requires one little ball.

[beekay]

Cool... Thanks
#18 on the pic

I think I'm going to fabricate a custom length clutch pushrod, cause I have the adjustment screw adjusted in til it's nearly as far as it will go and still safely be engaged in the locknut.
I have a spare pushrod and using that will restore it to the original dia where it fits in the L side bushing too.
This is all a result of the previous owner putting a 7 plate clutch in there, I suspect.

[ShakerNorm]

It could be the 7-plate clutch, but the 7-plate setup should be the same thickness as the 6-plate setup - the plates are a little thinner. There's also a possibility that it was assembled with one washer missing - it's pretty common to miss one washer that isn't shown in most diagrams - especially earlier ones. Here's a link to a posting that explains it.....
xs650temp.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sprocket&action=display&thread=12288

Go down about 2/3 of the page, and you'll see a coloured pic that shows the "missing" washer. It's only missing because the torrington bearing (#3 in the picture) usually comes with a new one, so Yamaha didn't give it a separate part number.

[jetmechmarty]

Both of the illustrations that I posted do not show the missing washer. If it were missing in this case, wouldn't the push rod need to be shorter instead of longer?

[beekay]

Well there is a missing washer, but it isn't the one under the needle bearing.
Judging from the pics, the earlier clutches had a pretty thick lockwasher under the big retaining nut and the later had a beveled washer?
There was something about this that didn't seem right to me as I assembled it and that was when I put that lockwasher on it made the stack height of the of parts big enough so that the nut was actually higher than the end of the trans mainshaft. With it that way the pusher(? part #11) was actually contacting the nut around the edge, and that spaced the whole pushrod assy out a bit further that it ought to be. I think that's the source of the problem.
I should be using a thinner washer than the lockwasher. So now I need to find the right washer and then I think it will be alright.

Also; Luck was with me and I have a spare engine which had the later design clutch pushrod and I just compared the length to the other type and they are both the same length.
I believe that what I need to do is eliminate that thick lockwasher and then things ought to align correctly.

[xsleo]

If you look at the pics in jetmechmarty's first post you will see the older version used a nut, a thick lock washer and a flat washer. In the later version they used a nut, a spring, belleville washer, much thinner type lock washer and a thin washer. Your using of the conventional lock washer is to thick.
Boats.net list the spring, belleville as available.
Also the two piece rod had an aluminum outer rod, I have one here in my hand. I think the inner was aluminum too but not sure. They used the alloy rods hoping the expansion rate of the rods would match the exransion rate of the cases.
This would eliminate the difference in cold to hot clutch adjustment.
I also think they used a two piece rod to prevent bending. A long rod is more apt to bend than a short rod.
The main problem with using the twp piece rod is the outer rod waers the bushing behind the seal faster and promotes wear on the seal. Worn seals leak oil.
Swap one problem for another.
Leo

[jetmechmarty]

Since you put it that way, Leo, that seal is not very difficult to replace. Thanks for clearing that up.

[beekay]

Well... this is getting interesting.
I'll need to take the whole thing apart and see how things look.
I have a spare clutch and it's a 6 plate and depending upon how things look, possibly I'll just put that in.

I'm wondering about that bevel washer, does that take the place of the lockwasher?
Should it be replaced with a new one or can it be re-used?

[5twins]

That's actually a "Belleville" washer and it is a form of lock washer, so yes, it replaces the older normal style type.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belleville_washer

The later clutch does away with the lock washer and uses a plate that you bend the sides up on, just like on your front sprocket nut.

[beekay]

I'll be durned... Belleville it is

So can it be reused?