the 200 watt stator hasn't solve my problem and it still won't charge with the lights on. It is better but now what I had hoped. I am running the stock xs points and coils and with only the ignition on the bike drains at idle and will start to charge around 1500 rpms. with the lights on this changes to about 4500 rpms, no good. Headlight is a standard h4 55/60 watt. flywheel is in good shape (off a 2005 banshee). right now I am not using the high voltage output of the stator (meant to drive the banshee cdi)
questions: how much juice do the stock coils use? anybody know of some coils that would run off the stock points and the banshee cdi output? I could use old style vespa coils but they are not the most reliable... would it be possible to rig a headlight to run off that output(without rewinding)? would I be any better off ditching the battery completely and changing the stator back to AC? will the coils work that way? any other ideas, work arounds?
The good news is the bike runs super. the new engine has some real grunt. I just wish I could get this resolved so I can take it more than a few miles out...
i may have jumped the gun a little and read into the numbers too much. My battery tester was designed for cars so of course it thinks my bikes system is weak. I just spent the last hour putting around the neighborhood with all the lights on and my little 4 amp battery is still at full charge. Gonna shake it down this next week and see if it leaves me stranded again...
What were you using to test it? An ammeter would tell you quickly if the battery is charging or discharging. A volt meter accross the battery terminals can tell you a lot too. If your battery voltage is going over 13 volts then you have juice going into the battery.
I was using one of those cheap alternator testers. it has a little led tree for alternator output and battery voltage. I had it taped to the tank as kind of and early warning device. I need to get a better volt meter... the one I have only has scales of 10 V and 50 volts and up so getting an accurate reading is hard. I haven't seen the voltage go under 12 yet so I am keeping my fingers crossed...
With over 2500 views on this thread, and new components available, it would seem there would be a business opportunity in creating a bolt-on kit to upgrade the XS650 to a PM alternator system. Anyone else think so?
No doubt about it. And since the stock replacement parts are pretty pricey there is a probably a profit margin that is competitive with the stock stuff. There's one guy that put a Moto Guzi unit in the stock location; stator/flywheel weight about the same. I touched base with him a couple of weeks ago wondering if his set-up survived the heat and vibes of that location and he report no problemo with 2 plus years on it. So--- the bits and pieces are available off the shelf. Somebody SHOULD market this up-grade.
Post by skr00zloose on Aug 24, 2007 12:52:44 GMT -5
so, let me see if i have this right, you have the banshee setup, with the high voltage lead (running a regulator or regulator/rectifier??) running the stock points AND the lighting? just curious as to how you have it wired. are you running the bike a/c or d/c?
i'm considering trying this out on my chop to be able to get rid of the battery, and end my never ending battle with crappy XS charging rotors. kinda curious as to whether a stock banshee stator would make enough juice to run the stock points and a headlight/tail light without any backup battery.
mind giving me a rundown on how yours is wired? think a stock stator will run a bare minimum electrical system? i only ask b/c i can get stock parts cheap, and would rather not spend needless money on a 200w stator if i don't need it.
right now I am running a dc setup with the high voltage disconnected. I havn't found any coils that trigger reliably off the high voltage. to run totally batteryless you will need coils that run off the high voltage. you could probably do it with the stock coils if you had a decent capacitor. The stock banshee setup puts out very little power though and the problem is with the lights on the coils cant charge and the bike sputters and dies. It may work with an older 30 watt headlight and LEDs everywhere else.
I think I have my bike straightened out now. I have LEDs in the taillight and rear blinkers. I have 10 watt bulbs in the front blinkers so that the flasher unit still works correctly. I am still running the 60 watt front light which I leave off until dark. I am planning to add a low watt or LED running light in the headlight reflector.
This sounded like a good Idea to begin with but I wouldn't go this route again. I think the rz350/euro rd350 stator would be better or just buy the chech kit.
the biggest problem is that the banshee system was designed for a 2 stroke. they idle much higher and spend more time at high rpm. the xs just dosn't spin fast enough to make it charge
- Adjustable Timing Plate. - Charging/Lighting Coils. Output of 200 watts (stock output only 85 watts). - Source Coils - Pickup Coil - Flywheel has stronger magnets than the stock. - Lights will run better in the lower RPM's (less dimming).
The XS650 would not need the adjustable timing plate or pickup coil because the ignition is triggered off the cam, right? The source coil would power the ignition, separate from the charging/lighting coils, so you could kick-start the bike without a battery.
Let’s see… You get an adapter plate from Terry Gliddon in Australia, a Banshee High-Output PM stator and rotor kit, and the only thing missing would be a wiring pigtail to match up all the electrical connections (and maybe a Boyer-Bransden "battery eliminator" if desired). Am I making this sound too easy?
I know lots of people have worked long and hard on this type of conversion, some with great success, some less so. I can’t help but think that if all the bits of knowledge were pulled together (especially the wiring puzzle), a rock-solid, step-by-step solution would emerge. This in turn could become a conversion kit that would be a “must-have” upgrade for the long-running XS650. Between pdxs, David Rayner and others, we’re so close!
pdxs- If you want to find out what it takes to get a CDI setup working you can roll up to my place one of these weekends. My offer still stands, I'll trade the CDI parts and labor for one of your adapter plates. All we really need to figure out is what bias voltage to apply to the Toyota pickup so it can triger the CDI box.
Captdan, We're not "so close", we're already there and have been for 3 or 4 years. Dave R.
I guess what I'm saying is that we're so close to having a concise process with specific parts - a "kit" that any XS650 owner, with a minimum of skill and downtime, could assemble and install. No special machining, no ambiguous wiring, no time-consuming troubleshooting, just install and enjoy. Though others have made the PM alternator work, until we reach a point where even the “electrically-challenged” (like me) can make the swap, in my mind we’re still only “close”. To that end, I’m compiling a list of questions to help establish exact parts and processes, aimed at creating a near off-the-shelf PM alternator swap. I’ll be sending it out to all the trailblazers in hopes of distilling all their knowledge into one place. Hopefully one day there will be an “XS650 Permanent Magnet Alternator Swap for Dummies”, and no 650 owner will ever have to be sidelined by their charging system again!
r80rt: :)This is a splendid write up, THANK YOU!!!!
Dec 26, 2015 16:54:05 GMT -5
mashermoto: What the what is this shoutbox for? Or should I shout, WHAT THE WHAT IS THIS SHOUTBOX FOR!
May 12, 2016 22:22:21 GMT -5
motormike: Good Day ...just a FYI.. Wild Cat is this Labor Day weekend. Still go'n on. A few 650's still make the scene. Various rides at different skill levels each day.. awards dinner sunday eve. BS in the park'n lot after dinner.
Aug 23, 2016 7:57:01 GMT -5
lsettle: First post in over 6 years!
Aug 28, 2016 19:45:17 GMT -5
kardon: Wow quiet here, where did they all go.
Oct 7, 2016 2:18:13 GMT -5
gggGary: XS650.com LOL
Feb 16, 2017 20:49:02 GMT -5
buell88: Anybody have any idea who built the xs650 tracker used in the Draggin Jeans Ad on Pipeburn?
May 16, 2017 16:24:09 GMT -5
joshua: The regulator/rectifier unit I got from Mikes PMA has closer hole spacing than original. Are we supposed to mill the holes to fit?
Jun 7, 2017 19:25:58 GMT -5
joshua: My bad. I found the bracket they supplied to mount the rectifier/regulator... Uh oh. How is this meant to work? Which way is it meant to mount? Looks like I have to use some spacers or something. Good instructions would be nice.
Jun 7, 2017 22:09:52 GMT -5
craig8johnson: Not sure if this is the right spot or not but oh well...
Jul 11, 2017 18:04:15 GMT -5
craig8johnson: I'm checking the charging system. I'm afraid I might have fried the last battery. With the solid state regulator (after market) what should it be charging at. The book says, I think, 15 volts. I'm hitting 17 when revved. Is that too high?
Jul 11, 2017 18:06:19 GMT -5
gggGary: Yes 17 volts is too high, about 14 volts is max, sounds like you don't have the right regulator or it's wired wrong.
Jul 13, 2017 6:54:33 GMT -5
dean: Just saying Hello, new member who is going to fix up a 79 XS650 that has seen its better days. I will definitely have lots of questions coming up.
Jun 23, 2018 16:45:32 GMT -5
tt650: Trying to breathe life into a 1980 that's been stored (indoors) for 25 yrs. Air filters are dry rotted. Have cleaned carbs but she only runs briefly on choke then stops. Need jet setting info and other ideas that might help her idle and rev.
Jul 3, 2018 19:15:19 GMT -5
trix13: Hey everyone! New to the forum and am fighting those gremlins!! New charging system, ignition switch, coil and fuse box. Resistance is higher than normal on the ignition pick up so I'm trying to find one. No such luck yet.
Aug 16, 2018 8:50:48 GMT -5
trix13: Also, even though all of my connections are clean, I cannot seem to find out why , when at higher rpms, I hit the signals and the rpms pulse with the signals...hahah. same with the brake light. I appreciate all input!!
Aug 16, 2018 8:55:08 GMT -5
bob99: how do I post a question. I am new to the forum
Jun 6, 2019 10:52:10 GMT -5
adlpc: Hello all! Been enjoying your edifying posts and discussions - and as a fan of the XS650 since my early teenage years happy that I now own a 1980 Special which I plan to turn into a vintage half faired racer. Thank you all for being here!
Oct 1, 2019 0:58:56 GMT -5
jimothyj: Hello everyone, I just joined & wish would have known about this site in 2014 when I brought my 1974 TX650A back from the grave. I have spent a good deal of $$ and alot of time on it. Just painted it and working on electrical, I will post pics soon,
Apr 10, 2021 2:14:13 GMT -5
louisvan: trix13 - I had a problem with my 1975 SX650. When I got to highway speeds, the engine lost power. The problem was in the connectors. At a certain vibration and the wind pushing on the wiring loom, the connector lost continuity. A bad crimp to the wire.
May 20, 2021 1:19:09 GMT -5