Curly's Charging System Trouble Shooting Guide

[yamahachop]

Just wanted to post a quick note and thank you guys so much for having this online. Mechanically and fabrication wise I have the utmost confidence in my skills. Electrical, not so much

I was having a problem with my bike cutting out really bad. was trying to figure out how to adjust the carbs ect.... Then I finally realized that it was because my battery was going dead because my charging system wasn't working.

I followed diagrams from this site earlier, thought I had it correct, but was wrong. With this super simple guide to follow, I tracked down my error in under an hour, and was back on the road.

Thanks again, and to anyone else, you don't have to know barely anything about electrical, just follow this guide, and you should be able to track down your problem.

Always remember, start with the easy stuff first! Usually it's the simplest things that are wrong, in my case, I had wires crossed.

Sky

[earnest79]

thanks for the guide, it lead me to my problem ( the plug) even tho i knew nothing about the motorcycles charging system.

[lang]

Apr 28, 2007 15:44:38 GMT -5 Islandson said:

OK, Step 3. Both brushes seem to be grounded. MOOEY Sparks. connections is as follows.
1. Brush holder- four mounting holes at the corners, bottom left is stepped up with brass nut insert.
2. right brush (inner alt ring)- mounts to upper left,right and bottom right of holder.
3. left brush (outer alt ring)- mounts to top left of holder.
4. wire with black nylon or cloth insulation- mounts to top left of holder.
5. wire with what looks to be white insulation- mounts to bottom left of holder. there is 12 volts present at this wire with the key on.
there is also 12 volts at the regulator brown and green wires with the plug connected with the key on.
Do these connections seem correct to you? If all is as should be, Which brush do I fry?

I've got the same set up and problem on my '77 - I'm trying to do step 3 (but for the older non-solid state model) and I've tried running a jumper wire from the battery pos terminal to either of the brushes and all i get is lots of sparks, the engine cuts off and my jumper wire gets super hot (enough to melt a little).

Please help before I fry my bike! How should I be testing my regulator?
Thanks!

[punkskalar]

Ok, so not to be a pain, but WHEN is the engine running or not for these tests? Is it running during #3?

And what does BETWEEN the slip rings mean? The black area between them??? I'm assuming the slip rings are the brass rings on the stator?

I've checked my grounds, I'm getting full voltage at the brown wire and at the brushes. Not a very strong magnetic pull (talking about THROUGH the aluminum cover right? I get none there... Some on the nut itself with the cover removed. I'm getting 14.3-14.5 Volts charging with the throttle opened up some.

Problem is, I can ride for a good long while, maybe 3 hours or so today, then nothing. I lose power, headlight is really dim (if it comes on at all) and then I come home, check it all, put on the charger, and it seems ok for a bit.

Im running a smaller battery, but Kick-Only, and running just a headlight and taillight. No turn signals, relays, etc...

[marlboroman]

#1-pass

#2-I get nothing on the case (silver piece that goes all the way around the whole unit after removing side cover but the nut in the middle has a little and when I cut the switch on it does slap the nut but not the "case"?

#3 fail! now does the reulator itself (the black box with cooling fins) have to grounded as well? if so mine may or may not be as i painted the box the match my motor so there could be some paint on there stopping the ground....

#4 Pass!

#5 ohm meter test on rotor- pass

#6 didn't perform will try later with more hands!

#7 I didn't use the yellow wire- didn't perform these tests will perfrom later with more hands to help

now is #3 my problem? the box itself not grounded???

[marlboroman]

trashed both and built chrysler/radioshack setup.....

[jordanepp]

Apr 25, 2009 13:43:05 GMT -5 lang said:

Apr 28, 2007 15:44:38 GMT -5 Islandson said:

OK, Step 3. Both brushes seem to be grounded. MOOEY Sparks. connections is as follows.
1. Brush holder- four mounting holes at the corners, bottom left is stepped up with brass nut insert.
2. right brush (inner alt ring)- mounts to upper left,right and bottom right of holder.
3. left brush (outer alt ring)- mounts to top left of holder.
4. wire with black nylon or cloth insulation- mounts to top left of holder.
5. wire with what looks to be white insulation- mounts to bottom left of holder. there is 12 volts present at this wire with the key on.
there is also 12 volts at the regulator brown and green wires with the plug connected with the key on.
Do these connections seem correct to you? If all is as should be, Which brush do I fry?

I've got the same set up and problem on my '77 - I'm trying to do step 3 (but for the older non-solid state model) and I've tried running a jumper wire from the battery pos terminal to either of the brushes and all i get is lots of sparks, the engine cuts off and my jumper wire gets super hot (enough to melt a little).

Please help before I fry my bike! How should I be testing my regulator?
Thanks!

So it looks like both Islandman and Lang are both having the same problem as me with Curly's step # 3. I don't see anywhere where this qustion has been answered so please direct me if I've missed it. Can anyone explain or help get us past this step in Curly's guide.? I'm running a '74 TX with a '78SE engine.

cheers

[xsleo]

At step # 3, yes the engine is running. If you look at reply #2, Curly tells the difference and how to check the older mechanical regulators.

[jordanepp]

Aug 18, 2009 18:13:59 GMT -5 xsleo said:

At step # 3, yes the engine is running. If you look at reply #2, Curly tells the difference and how to check the older mechanical regulators.

Yes. Curly says in reply #2, "The mechanical regulator models ('70-'79) work opposite of the solid state bikes. The regulator feeds power to the rotor on the positive brush (the insulated one) and it grounds all the time on the negative brush. So, to perform the regulator bypass on a pre-'80 model just apply 12+VDC to the positive brush with a jumper from the battery and watch for a rise in charging voltage at the battery terminals when you rev it up just like on the solid state equipped bikes."

But when I try and run the jumper between the positive brush and the battery we get the sparkies. No want sparky. What am I doing wrong?

[beekay]

Is this thread still alive?
If so; I'm getting a fail on step #1,
but with the engine running, anything over 1000rpm the voltage is >16v.
It was suggested that I use a battery that's expendable til the problem is corrected,
also to replace my regulator with a new solid state Rect/Reg - so I ordered one.
But now I'm concerned that there may be a pre-existing problem that will cause damage to my new regulator when I install it.
Any suggestions or tests I should do?

I'm thinking that a preliminary step, in addition to starting with a good battery, would be to be sure the brushes and commutator are making proper contact. So I ordered brushes as well.

Thx - BK

[pamcopete]

beekay,

Well, that was not very good advice. If the voltage goes much above 16V it can cause the battery to boil and possibly even crack open, spewing acid all over the bike.

The cause of the high voltage has to be the voltage regulator not regulating. That's what it's there for.

If you have the original regulator, located under the left side sir filter cover, then open it up and check if the contacts are welded together which would provide a constant, unregulated current to the rotor. You can separate the contacts and clean them up with a small file to get you by until your solid state regulator arrives.

The new regulator should fix the problem. The good news is that the rest of your charging system, rotor, stater and rectifier are OK because you couldn't produce 16 Volts if there was anything wrong with any of that.

Meanwhile, if you can't fix the regulator you have, then park the bike before you fry something.

[beekay]

Hmm... Okay
I'm puzzled why I'd be failing step #1 if my rotor is in good enough shape to put out the voltage mentioned above.
Unless there's poor contact between the brushes and the slip ring?

[pamcopete]

beekay,

Yes, could be that the rotor just happened to stop on a spot of the slip rings that are making poor contact. That will be taken care of when you clean the slip rings and install the new brushes.

But, you would not get 16Volts at the battery if there was something wrong with your rotor or stator.

The crude relay type regulator works by opening the contacts when the voltage reaches 14.7 volts, then closes when the voltage drops below 14.2. A really crude system. So, if either the contacts are shorted together or the coil is open circuited, then the rotor will get full battery voltage all the time and produce it's maximum output.

(I forgot to mention to check the regulator relay coil resistance in my earlier post)

[jmhscout]

Ok I've got a 81 special and I think I have checked everything right but I seem to only get a 12.3 -12.67v at 3000 rpm
what the heck did I do wrong to have missed an issue to not get a good charging voltage
I can go quit a few miles before I need to pull it back into the drive and die lol
anyhints on this issue would be great but I'm thinking it's the rec/ reg and may just buy a new one from mikes

[retiredgentleman]

Don't guess about which parts are defective, ..............you'll just end up buying parts you don't need.

Follow the guide. The most common problems are worn out brushes, i.e. less than 3/8" long, and failed rotors. Have you measured the resistance from one slip ring to the other ( must remove one brush and use 200 ohm scale to measure...............should be around 5 ohms.)