Black Widow Choppers?

[Buzz239]

The last post I read on Black Widow Choppers they were putting out crap. Have they cleaned up there act?

[Buzz239]

I guess I can take that as a NO THEY HAVEN'T!

[eric123]

I haven't heard one way or the other lately...

[jeepurze]

I have heard nothing lately, there on ebay check their rating?

[dirtnap]

PM me, I would like to earn your business and can provide references and pics. Thanks.

[chop]

Well, I have to jump in on this one. If you are looking at a BW weld on unit as I bought then shipping can easily damage the section, Bent rear sections do not line up. I took mine totally apart and re-assembled it to get ever thing level, and parallel. I found the tubing to be thinner than I expected and the 1/4" axle plates lack rigidity. That was about last December, possibly things have improved. Just my 2 bits.
Cheers.

[spyder]

Chop, how can the tubing be thinner than expected, its been on my website and in my ebay auctions FOREVER that the tubing was 14 guage, and just as long it has stated the plates are 1/4 inch.
So what gives? you dont read before you buy, or you did read and just wanted to jump on the bandwagon to piss and moan about me.
If you werent happy, you should have said something.

[dirtnap]

Never heard of 14 guage tubing, tubing is sold by wall thickness in inches. 14 guage sheet steel is 0.0747" thick, is that what you mean? I hope to god you are not building hardtails out of some cheap chinese junk guaged tubing. I googled 14 guage tubing and found people were selling it for store display racks. NICE! Gas piping would be a step up from that.

Industry standard for a hardtail is 0.120" wall tubing, preferably DOM but at minimum ERW.

[Six-Five-O]

Chop, how can the tubing be thinner than expected, its been on my website and in my ebay auctions FOREVER that the tubing was 14 guage, and just as long it has stated the plates are 1/4 inch.
So what gives? you dont read before you buy, or you did read and just wanted to jump on the bandwagon to piss and moan about me.
If you werent happy, you should have said something.

Never heard of 14 guage tubing, tubing is sold by wall thickness in inches. 14 guage sheet steel is 0.0747" thick, is that what you mean? I hope to god you are not building hardtails out of some cheap chinese junk guaged tubing. I googled 14 guage tubing and found people were selling it for store display racks. NICE! Gas piping would be a step up from that.

Industry standard for a hardtail is 0.120" wall tubing, preferably DOM but at minimum ERW.

While I don't want this subject to become a pissing contest...I am moved to say for the sake of safety and peace of mind that I am going to sticky this subject for a while and hope all parties involved will address this safety related discussion in a rational and adult manner...Please do carry on! ;D

Thx

John

[dirtnap]

www.webcoindustries.com/tubing/bwgchart.cfm

Tubing chart I found, holy hell, they say 14 gauge is .083". Why is it everyone else builds with .120" wall? Even stock handlebars are thicker than that, usually .095" wall!!! I know you said this guy should have read the listing, but come on, you as the builder should have some interest in not selling something that will kill or at least injure.

I have no interest in turning this into a pissing contest, just stating facts.

[chop]

O.k. I don't want to be in a war over HT sales and Spyder is 100% correct on the availability of the specs. I was a novice buyer and was trusting the experts to deliver the goods. Welcome to the web. Thanks to this site I'm working things out.

[71XS1B]

Thought I'd post a couple of links to a very informative website provided by Panic, a new member to the 650 Garage. The website has some extensive discussion on chassis design and tube dimensions, relevant strength, stiffness, weight, etc. All important considerations in any chassis design.

victorylibrary.com/brit/chassis-c.htm

victorylibrary.com/brit/chassis-1.htm

Cheers,
Dan

[jeepurze]

well for whats it worth dirtnap is a standup guy and does great work, and I do know theres been a lot of BW neg threads.
The main thing is do your homework . good luck.

[vlad]

It seems the gauge isn't the defining param on stiffness.

From the site Dan directed us to:

71xs1b said:

The website has some extensive discussion on chassis design and tube dimensions, relevant strength, stiffness, weight, etc. All important considerations in any chassis design.

victorylibrary.com/brit/chassis-c.htm

"The Norton Commando frame’s with its 16 gauge 2.25” OD central tube is the poster child" [on stiffness]
It continues "...the stiffness is proportionate to the 4th power of the diameter. 1-1/4” tube with .069” wall thickness is 166% as stiff as 1” tube @ .090” wall, and weighs slightly less."
So a large diameter 14 gauge, may be stiffer than a smaller diameter 11 gauge.

Disclaimer I have no dog in this fight - I know neither spyder nor dirtnap, nor have I dealt with either.

[dirtnap]

All well and good if he were using 2.25", he is using 1" 14 gauge...