After reading more on this thread I think it's important to clarify that my issues around the tubing and axle plates relate to the shipping of the product. It's all fine and good to post how great the part may be, but, if it doesn't survive the trip to it's destination then what's the point. There is more to quality than just the part itself, alot more. So, I was not happy with the goods and I am saying something about it, right here where some one doing there homework can get educated. Cheers.
I don't know black widow chopper or any other chopper frame manufactures for that fact. However I am familiar with frame design and construction (you can say Im in the OE business).
Tubing thickness buy itself is not a deciding factor in frame construction. There are many other factors that play into frame construction.
Simply taking a cutting tool, and a welder, does not make you a frame designer. There are many mathmatical calculations that enter into the equation, along with many material issues (type, wall thickness, hardness, flexiability, resistance to permiation (rust), etc).
Most frame builders use an industry standard material, designed specifically for frame manufactring (there are several)
However its the design placement (engineering) of the materials that provides the frames ability to withstand the daily rigors of operation.
I would hope for the safety of all that a frame manufacturer would be able to indicate the SAE testing that their frame was subjected to, and how it was improved to meet the test criteria. This is far more important than just relying on wall or material thickness alone.
For instance a 500 hour test of a loaded frame moving over the most extream of road condtions at 60 mph would indicate if the frame design has flaws, This type of testing would extreamly stress all areas and completly fail the weakest.
When you look at an OE frame and think, I don't like this tube placement I think I will move it here. Remember this frame design has undergone many hours of testing and the result is the accumulation of all the failures that occurred during those tests.
Be careful, a good frame designer should be able to tell you how his/her frame was tested, to what specificatons and what material was chosen. I would steer clear of those whos only focus is to make the frame visually pleasing without considering the engineering involved. kzac
Hey hey hey I had my 81 xs frame hardtailed by the spyder man. I can attest first hand. It cost $300 dollars hello. My bike goes down the street straight as an arrow with no hands. Did the frame come back polished to a mirrored finish? no. Did I get what I paid for my Jap chop? yes. Does everybody I meet think its way cool? yes. Did the motor still fit in the whole when he was done? Yes. yes and yes. CRap? not in my book! Art work? Clean it up yourself. Sweat equity is the name of this poor mans game. Thanks spyder Ill send pics soon as I can get ahold of a digital camera.
What's up, I noticed everyone's weld on's are 300.00 or less. Fortunately, there's more to durability than the no hands test of faith. The Tigman made my day...a full-on one-off h.t. for just over 800.00 and his work truly is the real deal. Just for the record, I'm poor and sweat so at the end of the day I want what's coming to me...my money's worth. Cheers.
Post by 72hellbent on Feb 11, 2008 23:01:08 GMT -5
nothing personal to anybody here.... I have a friend who bought one some time back, by the end on his journey building the bike he had to consult the dude from kansas customs to get it right. Now take in mind this was some time ago, people and products of their skill do usually improve. Have they? I'm not sure. Were they in need of improvement? Everybody can improve WITH determination to suceed. As for myself, I don't trust anyone. So I built mine myself. The pieces I cut of the bike I took to a steel shop and bought an exact match of DOM tubing. Not really sure what the dimensions are anymore, but I figured if the factory used that dimension I could bet it was a pretty safe match. All in all I put about $60 in the tubing, $20 to a friend for machining the slugs, $10? in wire for my welder, about an hour gritting my teeth w/ my hydraulic tubing bender ($70 harbor freight), and piece of mind in knowing I did it right and can bet my OWN a$$ on it $$$$PRICELESS. Moral here is, If you can do it better than do it, if not pay someone else to do it for you and trust and research that person before you put your life in their hands of their fbrication skills or lack thereof. Like I said I trust no man, so I felt if anybody was gonna screw me it would be myself.. damn that was kinda like a rant wasn't it....oh well fuqit
...I picked up one of the BWT hard tail kits from a friend. I won't lie...its the cheapest out there, so thats what I went with. It indeed is 1" tubing and registers just under .100 on my caliper...so the 14ga sounds right. Plates are indeed 1/4". Like somebody posted, you get what you pay for. From an engineering standpoint the materials are on the low end of what you would choose for a build. Are they inadequate? Not in my opinion...at least not for my chop. I'm confident in my welding and I'm slugging of the frame...and I'll add some gussets at the backbone if I feel it needs it. Will post some pics along the way...
I'm not a welder, but I play one on Hondachopper.com
I didn't mean to sound derogatory about BWC. I've heard so many comments, both pro & con, I wanted a strait story. With the way the economy is going and me being a working guy, I just want to know if I'm throwing my money down a rat hole. If they are an reputable company, that's great and if there not, it sux to be them.
r80rt: :)This is a splendid write up, THANK YOU!!!!
Dec 26, 2015 16:54:05 GMT -5
mashermoto: What the what is this shoutbox for? Or should I shout, WHAT THE WHAT IS THIS SHOUTBOX FOR!
May 12, 2016 22:22:21 GMT -5
motormike: Good Day ...just a FYI.. Wild Cat is this Labor Day weekend. Still go'n on. A few 650's still make the scene. Various rides at different skill levels each day.. awards dinner sunday eve. BS in the park'n lot after dinner.
Aug 23, 2016 7:57:01 GMT -5
lsettle: First post in over 6 years!
Aug 28, 2016 19:45:17 GMT -5
kardon: Wow quiet here, where did they all go.
Oct 7, 2016 2:18:13 GMT -5
gggGary: XS650.com LOL
Feb 16, 2017 20:49:02 GMT -5
buell88: Anybody have any idea who built the xs650 tracker used in the Draggin Jeans Ad on Pipeburn?
May 16, 2017 16:24:09 GMT -5
joshua: The regulator/rectifier unit I got from Mikes PMA has closer hole spacing than original. Are we supposed to mill the holes to fit?
Jun 7, 2017 19:25:58 GMT -5
joshua: My bad. I found the bracket they supplied to mount the rectifier/regulator... Uh oh. How is this meant to work? Which way is it meant to mount? Looks like I have to use some spacers or something. Good instructions would be nice.
Jun 7, 2017 22:09:52 GMT -5
craig8johnson: Not sure if this is the right spot or not but oh well...
Jul 11, 2017 18:04:15 GMT -5
craig8johnson: I'm checking the charging system. I'm afraid I might have fried the last battery. With the solid state regulator (after market) what should it be charging at. The book says, I think, 15 volts. I'm hitting 17 when revved. Is that too high?
Jul 11, 2017 18:06:19 GMT -5
gggGary: Yes 17 volts is too high, about 14 volts is max, sounds like you don't have the right regulator or it's wired wrong.
Jul 13, 2017 6:54:33 GMT -5
dean: Just saying Hello, new member who is going to fix up a 79 XS650 that has seen its better days. I will definitely have lots of questions coming up.
Jun 23, 2018 16:45:32 GMT -5
tt650: Trying to breathe life into a 1980 that's been stored (indoors) for 25 yrs. Air filters are dry rotted. Have cleaned carbs but she only runs briefly on choke then stops. Need jet setting info and other ideas that might help her idle and rev.
Jul 3, 2018 19:15:19 GMT -5
trix13: Hey everyone! New to the forum and am fighting those gremlins!! New charging system, ignition switch, coil and fuse box. Resistance is higher than normal on the ignition pick up so I'm trying to find one. No such luck yet.
Aug 16, 2018 8:50:48 GMT -5
trix13: Also, even though all of my connections are clean, I cannot seem to find out why , when at higher rpms, I hit the signals and the rpms pulse with the signals...hahah. same with the brake light. I appreciate all input!!
Aug 16, 2018 8:55:08 GMT -5
bob99: how do I post a question. I am new to the forum
Jun 6, 2019 10:52:10 GMT -5
adlpc: Hello all! Been enjoying your edifying posts and discussions - and as a fan of the XS650 since my early teenage years happy that I now own a 1980 Special which I plan to turn into a vintage half faired racer. Thank you all for being here!
Oct 1, 2019 0:58:56 GMT -5
jimothyj: Hello everyone, I just joined & wish would have known about this site in 2014 when I brought my 1974 TX650A back from the grave. I have spent a good deal of $$ and alot of time on it. Just painted it and working on electrical, I will post pics soon,
Apr 10, 2021 2:14:13 GMT -5
louisvan: trix13 - I had a problem with my 1975 SX650. When I got to highway speeds, the engine lost power. The problem was in the connectors. At a certain vibration and the wind pushing on the wiring loom, the connector lost continuity. A bad crimp to the wire.
May 20, 2021 1:19:09 GMT -5