PAINT ????????

[chopperbbad]

Over the years I've gotten pretty good at the
[glow=red,2,300]IN HOUSE SPRAY BOMB PAINT JOB[/glow] my only problem has been I can't seem to find anything in a spray bomb that a drop of gas won't eat. My solution has been to lay enough clear coat on to be able to wetsand or use rubbing compound once a year to polish it up. Right now it looks like crap again. Got any Ideas!
Rick

[gdjohnson]

I don't think you'll like the answer but here I go.
As some already know I've been an automotive painter and I've been a paint rep for 2 different companies, currently PPG, for 14 years. The issue with spray can paint performance is to poor quality of coating that can be applied from them. Because only 1K (single component) type coatings can be used they are limited to lacquers or enamals. Niether of these coating type are able to stand up to UV light or chemicals, in other words they are weak. Todays automotive paints are urethane type clearcoat systems, this is not to say they are all the same. You truly get what you pay for with paint. Main line name brands are more costly but have quality ingredients like UV blockers and higher solids compared with no-name pirate brands that seem like a good deal. Paints should be applied as a system which means everything from the surface prep, primer, sanding grit, color, and clear must work togather to give the best finish.
I want to mention something important at this point,
Paint is hazardous!!! The chemicals in it are harmful to your health and they are very flamable. Great caution must be used when working with these products like gloves, respirators, and good ventalation.
With that said there is the matter of equipment needed. Air tools like DA sanders, air files, and of course paint guns are required. Hand blocks and a range of sand paper grits are also part of the process.
Here are a few things that may help the do it yourselfer apply a better paint job, one is called a "Preval" unit, it is basically a make your own spray can. It looks like a baby food jar attached to small spray can on the lid, you can mix a 2K product (primer, color, or clear) and spray it. It will be just like a spray can but you'll be applying a much better product, I would suggest adding a little reducer to help with the flow and applying extra coats. Another thing I've seen coming is 2K products in a spray can, "How can this be you ask". There are 2 part cans that keep the product (primer or clear) and hardener seperate until needed. At that time a device on the bottom of the can is used to release them to be mixed inside the can. Once mixed you would have say 2 hours to use the can before it hardens in the can but again you get a better product.
Well that's the tip of the iceberg on paint. Good paint products don't guarantee a good job as poor paint doesn't mean a poor finish but it sure helps. It comes down to skill and planning. I'll be happy to answer question as best I can but many times paint problem are tough to solve if I can't actually see them and know the system used, but I'll try.
Greg

[mental]

Yeah, what he said. Seriuosly though, greg hit the nail on the head. I would just like to add that if you plan on spraying a 2k (2part) product over a rattle can paint job, spray out a test panel with your rattle can product, let it dry thoroughly and then spray the desired 2k product onto it. A lot of times 2k products will eat into the surface of the rattle can products for the same reasons that gasoline will, because it is , as greg mentioned, "weak". Sometimes you can get away with it if you put on really light coats, but usually you will end up with a lifted, wrinkled mess.
One thing that I have seen help a little (and I do mean a little) with the chemical and sun damage issue is to apply many consecutive coats of Carnuba wax to the surface. Gas will eat the wax so you have to be quick with the cleanup, but it will help a little. One drawback though is that rattle can paint jobs contain a lot of solvents. Applying wax to a surface that is not fully cured (which can be a looooong time for some paints) can result in the paint cracking or hazeing over time.
Just a few little things that I wanted to add to Gregs excellent post.

Mental

[chopperbbad]

Before a tumble off a ladder 3 years ago I had been a painter for 25+ years. Of the house and commerical kind. I have tons of experience with industrial lacquer's(love the smell of banana based thinners) and have used all kinds of spay equipment.
Am clueless when it comes to the automotive kind.
For the price of painting two bikes at a shop I can buy a small compresser and a spray gun at wally mart. Would this be worth it in the long run. I am a trial an error type of guy but how big of a mess would i be getting myself into. I don't have a clue as to how much reducer to use or types of paint, all that stuff.
Rick

[Hammerin]

;D I had several paint by RATTLE CAN jobs and they were just fine but to understand the prossess is key here.

Ture that they will fall off with gas but this is if you don't use a second coat. I let them sun bake, use an enamel. Then after it's dryed really good in the sun I scuff it off with 400 then apply a second coat or just leave it till next year. Can't remember the type but they were all Enamls.

Application is by a slightly heated rattler.. that is emmerse it in hot water like just before it is boiling then apply the paint and let dry for about 12 hours.

I can get a really shiny paint job so long as you scuff it and then after the second coat it will go one as smooth as if some one did it professionaly.. ::)I know, hard to believe but for me it works great.

My race bikes worked out,( scratches were just a matter of a quick sand and spray ) my custom Arcylick Enamils always chipped off and that was when I use to paint cars a lot.

So The car that I painted with Tremclad Rattler was a really good durable finish and at that time about 1976 I put on a clear coat of some kind after I scuffed it with 800. Light blue and white sprips!!!!!!!! If you buy the canned stuff use about 3% thinners and 80 PSI if you use a spray gun. ;D

It turned dull after just 2 months . Then I scuffed it and gave it a second coat. The next year it went dull again and I scuffed it with 800 again and aplied the clear coat form a spray gun though. Rattler clear coats are god for small areas only. I tried a hood and door a few times :'(Can't remember the product name but it was enamel compatable and once the Enamel Rattler job was done it looked OK..... not a custom show job but it was OK for a home spun job .

So you can get a cheep job that looks good but it just takes a bit more time. After the clear coat dried, then I used Carnuba wax, 4 coats every spring time... like mental refured to. ;D May be he knows what would be compatable to Enamels?

[mental]

Saftey is a major concern with modern paints. If you plan on spraying in the garage, you need to consider your family as well as yourself. Open flame devises such as hot water heaters and furnaces need to be addressed as well. I am NOT suggesting that you paint in your garage, but if you are going to do it, heres some tips. First, spray when your family will be gone for a while. Not just while you are spraying but even while the paint is drying. Solvents will be purging from the surface for some time after you have stopped spraying. Protect yourself with a good charcoal resperator. Buy one that allows you to replace the filter cartridges. Isocyonates, which are in most catalysed paints, are odorless and therfore impossible to detect. Once the charcoal in the resperator is exposed to it, the isocyonate will "creep" through the charcoal in about 8 to 12 hours, so I recommend only using one pair of cartridges for one day's worth of spraying before replacment. Also, it's a good idea to cover as much skin as possible and wear eye protection. Chemicals can be absorbed through the skin and eyes. Make yourself a booth out of clear plastic and try to provide some crossflow ventilation Second, be sure that any open flamed devices are turned off before you start to spray. The mist from the overspray is flammable and all you need is to send your family away only to return to a blown up house.
I don't have a lot of experience using small compressors, so I'm only guessing here, but I would think that a 5 horse with a reasonable sized tank would do it. You will need to do some plumbing to get the outlet for your air hose as far away from the compressor as possible. At a minimum, I would run 1/2" High pressure PVC from the compressor (try to put a flex line between the PVC and the compressor), up to the ceiling, along the wall or ceiling to as far away as possible. Then drop the PVC down to about 3' above the floor and add a good quality oil/water trap and a fitting for your air hose. Then continue the PVC down another foot or so and add a ball valve. The extra length of PVC and the ball valve will help trap any water that gets past the oil/water trap. The reason for keeping the drop, oil/water trap and airline fitting as far from the compressor as possible is because as the air is compressed, it heats up and the moisture condenses. By having a long run of tubing before your air hose, the air is allowed to cool off thereby transfering less moisture. If the moisture in the line is not trapped before it gets to your spray gun, it will be transfered to the paint and can cause rust, hazeing, fisheyes, etc.
As far as the spray gun goes, I hate those "waly mart" guns. Let me give you an example. Suppose you have your choice of driving cross country in a Renault LeCar or a BMW 5 Series. You COULD make it across the country in a Renault LeCar, but it wouldn't be comfortable or reliable. Performance would be a never ending quest. And when, not if, it broke down, you would have a hell of a time finding parts. Oh, and crappy mileage to boot. Now the BMW on the other hand would be really comfortable, totally reliable and predictable. Performance would always be at hand and if, for some unforseen reason, you needed parts, they would always be just a phone call away. And pretty decent mileage as well. Anyway, that's exactly how I veiw spray guns. You don't really need the BMW of spray guns to do a good job, but you really don't want to use the Renault version either. Somewhere in between you should be able to get a decent, reliable gun for about $200. I would stay with name brands like Iwata,Sata, Sharpe, DeVelbiss in that order. I prefer gravity feed (cup on top) guns for three main reasons. One, they atomize the paint better with less air pressure, two, they allow you to use every last drop of material (siphon guns always leave a little material in the bottom of the cup), and three, they are easier to clean.
Stay with quality name brand paints as well. PPG, Dupont, RM Diamont, Spies Hecker, etc. Like Greg mentioned, try to stay with one line of paint all the way through. It is possible to mix and match paint lines, but knowing when and where to do it only comes through trial and error and experience. Not a good idea for someone just starting out. As far as mix ratio's go, all manufacturers have what are called p-sheets or tech sheets. Ask for these before you buy your paint so that you can review it. It contains information pertaining to not only mix ratio's but also compatability with top coats or undercoats, sanding grits required, dry times, spraying pressures, flash times, number of coats, etc. It might also be a good idea to request the MSDS sheets for the products that you are considering so that you know exactly what chemicals you will be exposing yourself to.
I know that this is a lot of information to take in all at once, so if you have any questions, please ask, I know that if I can't answer them, Greg can.

Mental

[chopperbbad]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You guys a freaking awesome.

Rick

[gdjohnson]

Thanks Mental for covering all the bases I only touched on. Equipment, paint system, and safety all come togather to create a finished job.
Greg

[jongordo8]

yeah Greg knows his paints oh btw greg I emailed you several weeks ago and private messaged you on the old board, just wondering if you ever recieved either?

[chopperbbad]

I finally decided in what direction to go with my painting quandary. In the next few months I have three bikes that need painting. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ That eats a fair size hole in my yearly bike budget. And I’m pretty flexible, with the budget on the hi side. The chopper was gonna go black , that just changed because I recently snagged a pair of new saddle bags ;D of eBay and am going to paint the chop to match the bags. Nice bags tail lights are molded into the bag lids. Have a look. i20.ebayimg.com/03/i/01/6c/ce/21_1.JPG
My almost 12 year old son has told me he wants the 82 black with red flames .(DONE) its his bike . When he turns 16 it will be his first ride .
In order to stay in budget HARDTALOKAT is gonna stay hard to look at for another year or get bombed (rattle can), BOMBED it is.
Chop and 82 will be going to a shop for pro job. $$$
Thanks for all the info guys.
Rick

[OldBlue]

It's not as good as a real gun and compressor, but years ago I bought a Wagner Finecoat HVLP paint sprayer. It cost about 200 bucks and claims to produce less overspray. It has a small air pump, much like a vacuum cleaner or a shopvac. I have gotten my moneys worth from it many times over.

I painted my '72 chevelle with it, two tone blue and white lacquer with a clear coat and it looks very good, even w/o color sanding or buffing. I also stain my deck with it in about two hours. I can adjust it down to a two inch pattern for the rails. I also stained my dads 20x30 shed in about 2-3 hours.

Like I said, I would prefer a real gun, but this makes a good alternative for painting on a budget. If I need to paint my bike, guess what I'll be using.

[ktoy]

Hi greg my name is kevenI met you up in hellen ga.at a 650 ralley.i live in atlanta ga.the school crossing signs in ga use to be yellow and black.now ther are a lime green and black.being in paint business.may be you can tell what paint code this color of paint is.i want to paint my xs 650 this same shade of lime green paint.thanks ps how is your tracker doing

[ktoy]

hi greg my name is keven.i meet you up in helen ga.you were riding a tracker.that broke it rear seat mount.i hope you can help.what is the color code.for the new green/yellow school crossing signsi am looking to paint my tracker this color..my site mame is k toy.thanks

[brucedeuce]

Ive used Spraymax 2K and have spilled gas on my tank many times no problem!